The McGann Library Forum Index The McGann Library
A place to celebrate the works of British actor Paul McGann
 
 FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

General DW discussion, moved from the BBC7 thread
Goto page 1, 2  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    The McGann Library Forum Index -> Water Cooler
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Saphira



Joined: 14 Jul 2006
Posts: 142
Location: New Jersey

PostPosted: Sun Sep 17, 2006 8:14 am    Post subject: General DW discussion, moved from the BBC7 thread Reply with quote

I'm pasting in my reply to Nima here so the conversation can continue! Forgive me for not redoing the quotes, which would take a while--anything marked with ">" is originally her comment!


>I hope in Season 3 the Doctor goes away from Earth and perhaps grows to have a slightly darker side... The new stuff is hardly brain engaging.

Agreed.

>And I mean that in the sense of watching "Genesis of the Daleks" and I think in episode 4 where Tom Baker's doctor says something like, "If you knew that that child is going to grow up into a cruel person who would kill millions upon millions of lives could you then kill that child?" It's a fantastic moment and I think it pretty much tells you what the Doctor is about.

Yes!! Granted, that episode is possibly the biggest moral dilemma the Doctor has ever faced, and it's so beautifully handled. People don't seem to understand that what the old series lacked in effects it more than made up for in writing.

>However, as "Love and Monsters" proved it doesn't even seem like the Doctor is a different regeneration.. Instead he's a completely different person that seems to be corrupted, in my mind, by complete fanw- Yeah, you guys can finish the rest of the sentence I'm sure! Razz

Yup. And it just makes me so sad, because I think David Tennant could be such a fantastic Doctor if only the character were written properly.

>You have a point over "Inferno". I had that problem with "Genesis of the Daleks" though and really didn't enjoy it all. I managed to sit through "Inferno" in one sitting though, which shows the kind of impression it gave me.

I think I rationed "Inferno" out over two or three days just because there was so much of it. "Genesis," on the other hand, I saw in the accursed "movie" format, so it was pretty much all or nothing.

>Another serial I love is "Spearhead from Space".. It's quirky, silly, but totally forgivable.

I've never seen that one--nearly bought the DVD this evening, but eventually decided to wait. I want to see it, though.

>And yeah, the Ood do look a bit like them... And I honestly don't expect RTD to include anything like that Razz.

Hee! No.

>A friend of mine defends the new stuff because she's only ever seen the new stuff. When I explain that the new stuff is hardly brain engaging she says that it's because it's "made for kids" and I tell her, "but the old stuff was made for the family too and kids used to watch it but that didn't stop it being brain engaging." And I think that's part of the problem of why there's very next to little reference to old stuff or "complicated" old stuff....

I had a really rough time with someone on my LJ flist who couldn't understand why I wasn't happy with this series. It was annoying, because she'd seen the new stuff, and what old stuff she could get from Netflix, which was fine, except that she has no sense of the history of the thing, and therefore it just ended up becoming an argument where she asked things like "I don't understand why you don't like it--it was so much fun!" and "But you love this show so much, so why do you hate the new episodes?" I felt like I was beating my head against a wall and finally made the post private, and then decided to stop posting my thoughts on the episodes in the hope that I'd be able to enjoy them more. It was so frustrating, though, because she just couldn't get it. Though, another friend of mine who's very new to the series completely understands. I suspect it's because she's an author and finds the storytelling as weak as I do--if that's not it, then I don't know what the difference is, but I'm grateful that there is one!

SPOILER
*
*
*
*
*
BTW, I forgot to mention the deer-in-the-headlights blinking I did at that whole Olympic torch nonsense at the end of "Fear Her." I thought it was a decent episode otherwise--was thrilled that Rose finally got to DO something for a change--but that put it so far over the top that I shake my head now, just thinking about it. What WAS he thinking?!?

>The new Cybermen for instance. They're just laughable to me, but I watched "Attack of the Cybermen" with Colin Baker and it actually scared me and made me jump a few times... That's impressive for a bunch of men with teapots for heads and dressed in tinfoil Razz.

Oh, see...they scared the crap out of me. I think it's the element of steel, and, well...see, the idea behind the Cybermen scares me more than any actual physical appearance of them. That whole notion that they were once human and are happy to make you like them just gives me the creeps. They didn't scare me so much in eps like "Earthshock," where they weren't out for new recruits, but they scared me just as much in "Attack of the Cybermen" (which also just grossed me out, with Lytton being converted). I've actually managed to have nightmares about them, but then, I'm very impressionable that way so it's not too surprising!

Of course, the really old Cybermen are pretty comical. Wink (And the new Cybereps have completely ruined The Vicar of Dibley for me--it's on right now, and I look at Owen and think of Lumic). I'm more annoyed that they totally wrecked all the existing Cyberhistory by re-inventing them in the way they did. So much for Mondas, and Voga, and Telos, and...any history of them at all. I can't think of them as true Cybermen, because they're really no relation at all!


>I've always considered the sonic screwdriver to be somewhat of a "get out of jail free card". It's an easy work around for writers to work with and if it's there they'll use it. I said it in another post but I'm sure they banished it at some point and the writers just went ahead and created another device that was sonic to get the Doctor out of trouble. It's bad when the writers are getting that lazy... Or maybe they just have a severe lack of talent Sad.

Well, the story as I recall it was that Peter Davison felt, quite rightly, that the screwdriver made life too easy for the Doctor, and asked them to get rid of it. So they did, and I don't think it reappeared until the TVM (could be wrong about that, though--my recollection of Six and Seven is spotty, since I wasn't too fond of them). But even then, it was mostly used for things like opening locks or driving screws. Now it seems like it does everything but do the washing up, and I think that's ridiculous.

>Oh? I loved it!

Well, I was so used to the all-white thing that the redesign just left me going "Huh??" I'm still not wild about that steel contraption in the middle of the room. The new-series console room also took some adjustment, but I'm mostly okay with it now, though when I saw the teasers on the BBC last year, I looked at the friend who was with me and said "That's the Master's TARDIS, right? Or something?" Can't help it, I'm ridiculously old-school. I adapt in the end, though Wink

>I don't think that's his fault though. I think Eric Roberts as the Master wasn't a totally bad casting decision..

Possibly, I don't know. He just doesn't strike me as the right type. Not sure I'll ever adapt to this one--not if I haven't yet, considering how many times I've seen it Wink

>Haha, yep, I knew. I know about all the other hells the eighth doctor practically goes through... And it's kinda like Harry Potter and the Half Blood Prince... Even when I read that it was still a shock and gave me something to ponder about Wink.

Ahh, good Smile

>Yeah! OG is great on the trading bit Smile

It really is. I find the discussions a bit mind-numbing past the first few comments, generally, so I don't often venture in there, but I'm always seeing what folks are trading.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
emay
Site Admin


Joined: 29 Jan 2006
Posts: 1240
Location: Nashville, TN

PostPosted: Sun Sep 17, 2006 10:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for sharing your Who series views in this forum. Smile I've only seen The Christmas Invasion with Tennant and look forward to seeing season 2. The former story was a curious pastiche of Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy, Star Wars, and Doctor Who. The Doctor in his jammies especially reminded me of the hapless Arthur Dent

I'm watching DVDs of so-called classc Doctor Who in a desultory fashion. The show was not aired in most of the places I've lived, and I relied on the Target novelizations to keep my interest up. The first time I went to ChicagoTARDIS in 2001, I was agog at all the cool Doctor Who stuff in the dealers' room.

Anyway, the old stories can't be regarded as inferior, even if the sets were wobbly. The TV movie had fab effects but not the most compelling story.

Estelle
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail AIM Address
Saphira



Joined: 14 Jul 2006
Posts: 142
Location: New Jersey

PostPosted: Sun Sep 17, 2006 11:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

emay wrote:
The Doctor in his jammies especially reminded me of the hapless Arthur Dent


Did you catch his line when he referred to his PJs and said "very Arthur Dent"? I loved that.

Quote:
The show was not aired in most of the places I've lived, and I relied on the Target novelizations to keep my interest up.


Oh, that's such a shame! True enough, most PBS stations stopped airing it long before BBCWW started trying to sell the new series (which they originally wanted to sell along with the original series, making it prohibitively expensive, and snapping up all the PBS stations' contracts at the same time) because BBCWW is just so greedy and wanted so much for it. I grew up about an hour from Baltimore and was thrilled when we finally got cable so I could watch on Maryland Public Television, and was awed at the amount of money they brought in during DW pledge drives. It was phenomenal, which is why they're one of one or two PBS stations still airing it in the US. It's a shame it turned out that way, really, because it always made my weekend, being able to turn DW on and ignore the real world!

The Target novelisations are, as I'm sure you know...not the best. They're definitely written for kids, which is why despite the fact that I ate them up 20 years ago (and still buy any I'm missing when I come across them, since I'm not missing too many), I can't get myself to read them now unless I'm looking up some detail I can't remember. They're better than nothing, though!

Quote:
The first time I went to ChicagoTARDIS in 2001, I was agog at all the cool Doctor Who stuff in the dealers' room.


I bet! I'm sure tht felt much like my trip to The Who Shop in London this summer. It was too much to take in all at once, really--quite remarkable! I'd still love to have one of those old disappearing TARDIS mugs, but the proprietor assured me they're next to impossible to find. Sad

Quote:
Anyway, the old stories can't be regarded as inferior, even if the sets were wobbly. The TV movie had fab effects but not the most compelling story.


Exactly. You know, when I first heard the Beeb were bringing the show back, I was honestly scared--because I'd heard they'd actually given it a budget. I was terrified that it'd be all effects and no story. For the most part, I've been pleasantly surprised, though there have been exceptions for me, especially in series 2. But then, I had issues with series 2 in general. Won't go into them here, though, so as not to bias others unnecessarily Smile (After it finishes on SciFi, on the other hand, I'll be happy to discuss!)
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
NimaGraven



Joined: 21 Aug 2006
Posts: 69
Location: Liverpool, UK

PostPosted: Mon Sep 18, 2006 2:06 am    Post subject: Re: General DW discussion, moved from the BBC7 thread Reply with quote

Saphira wrote:

Yes!! Granted, that episode is possibly the biggest moral dilemma the Doctor has ever faced, and it's so beautifully handled. People don't seem to understand that what the old series lacked in effects it more than made up for in writing.


Can't agree more. The wobbly/dodgy sets and monsters made out of tin foil was definitely made up for with the writing.

Quote:
Yup. And it just makes me so sad, because I think David Tennant could be such a fantastic Doctor if only the character were written properly.


I'm of the same opinion. The writing doesn't do Tennant justice. But then you could say that about some of the Doctors in the 80s also Sad.

Quote:
I think I rationed "Inferno" out over two or three days just because there was so much of it. "Genesis," on the other hand, I saw in the accursed "movie" format, so it was pretty much all or nothing.


I couldn't ration Inferno. I was too hooked Smile.

Quote:
I've never seen that one--nearly bought the DVD this evening, but eventually decided to wait. I want to see it, though.


I'd recommend it. It's not an instant classic Who serial, but it's definitely a fun one. Jon Pertwee is pretty good in it but some people say he's a bit too much like Troughton in that one?

Quote:
I had a really rough time with someone on my LJ flist who couldn't understand why I wasn't happy with this series. It was annoying, because she'd seen the new stuff, and what old stuff she could get from Netflix, which was fine, except that she has no sense of the history of the thing, and therefore it just ended up becoming an argument where she asked things like "I don't understand why you don't like it--it was so much fun!" and "But you love this show so much, so why do you hate the new episodes?" I felt like I was beating my head against a wall and finally made the post private, and then decided to stop posting my thoughts on the episodes in the hope that I'd be able to enjoy them more. It was so frustrating, though, because she just couldn't get it. Though, another friend of mine who's very new to the series completely understands. I suspect it's because she's an author and finds the storytelling as weak as I do--if that's not it, then I don't know what the difference is, but I'm grateful that there is one!


Well, I'm a bit mean. If she couldn't accept that I simply had an opinion and I'd been explaining countless times on comparison why old is better than new I would have either A) Started to ignore the comments or B) Prevent her from posting on the LJ.

Quote:
SPOILER
*
*
*
*
*
BTW, I forgot to mention the deer-in-the-headlights blinking I did at that whole Olympic torch nonsense at the end of "Fear Her." I thought it was a decent episode otherwise--was thrilled that Rose finally got to DO something for a change--but that put it so far over the top that I shake my head now, just thinking about it. What WAS he thinking?!?


My main problem with "Fear Her" is that it's a complete copy of the story in "The Idiot's Lantern" in my eyes. The ending was really silly though, you're right... And what's with all this...:

SPOILER:
*
*
*
*
Fingers on lips stuff?

Instead of seeming remotely Doctorish he seemed more.. Jerky Razz.

Which brings me onto something else...

SPOILER:
*
*
*
*
As much as I love "The Girl in the Fireplace" as it's such a good story.. I despair over the fact that it was included in season 2. I ranked this highly, until I saw Doomsday. Maybe it should be the other way around? But my main reason was it made the Doctor seem more of a jerk towards Rose and then he does a complete 180 and admits in Doomsday that he DOES love her - Well, give or take maybe we don't really know what he's going to say so it's an assumption really Smile. Maybe this is part of him being alien, but I couldn't help but feel it wasn't planned right at all. As a story on it's own, it's a great story, but in the context of the season, it just seemed wrong to do to the Doctor. Maybe I'm clutching at straws, there's no real evidence to support he "loved" Mme de pompadeur but... You know... It came out that way too with the "dancing" and stuff. I hope this makes a bit of sense lol

Quote:
Oh, see...they scared the crap out of me. I think it's the element of steel, and, well...see, the idea behind the Cybermen scares me more than any actual physical appearance of them. That whole notion that they were once human and are happy to make you like them just gives me the creeps. They didn't scare me so much in eps like "Earthshock," where they weren't out for new recruits, but they scared me just as much in "Attack of the Cybermen" (which also just grossed me out, with Lytton being converted). I've actually managed to have nightmares about them, but then, I'm very impressionable that way so it's not too surprising!


Hm, yeah, I guess you got a point that it's what the Cybermen do that is more scary than what they look like.... But in terms of looks and the way the new Cybermen act my main gripe is that...

SPOILER:
*
*
*
*
They're too comical. The whole ending to Doomsday was fancrap. Daleks V Cybermen? Yes. You could see it happening, but it could have been done so much better and more seriously. At the end I was just laughing because of all the "Exterminate" and "Deletes" being thrown around...

And that's why I can't really find them that scary. The older ones scared me in "Attack of the Cybermen" because of the way they just kept appearing and grabbing people.

The Cybermen have also stopped me from ever viewing the Borg in a positive light ever again also Wink.

Quote:
Of course, the really old Cybermen are pretty comical. Wink (And the new Cybereps have completely ruined The Vicar of Dibley for me--it's on right now, and I look at Owen and think of Lumic). I'm more annoyed that they totally wrecked all the existing Cyberhistory by re-inventing them in the way they did. So much for Mondas, and Voga, and Telos, and...any history of them at all. I can't think of them as true Cybermen, because they're really no relation at all!


Haha. Indeed. Tea pot head men with tin foil Smile.

Quote:
Well, the story as I recall it was that Peter Davison felt, quite rightly, that the screwdriver made life too easy for the Doctor, and asked them to get rid of it. So they did, and I don't think it reappeared until the TVM (could be wrong about that, though--my recollection of Six and Seven is spotty, since I wasn't too fond of them). But even then, it was mostly used for things like opening locks or driving screws. Now it seems like it does everything but do the washing up, and I think that's ridiculous.


Very true. It's more a get out of jail free card for writers now than it was in the past. At least the TVM could resolve itself with the sonic screwdriver only appearing right at the end Wink.

Quote:
Well, I was so used to the all-white thing that the redesign just left me going "Huh??" I'm still not wild about that steel contraption in the middle of the room. The new-series console room also took some adjustment, but I'm mostly okay with it now, though when I saw the teasers on the BBC last year, I looked at the friend who was with me and said "That's the Master's TARDIS, right? Or something?" Can't help it, I'm ridiculously old-school. I adapt in the end, though Wink


Oh, for some reason when I wrote I loved it I thought we were talking about the 8th doctors console room! haha. Oh well. Yeah, the new one isn't bad, it just looks a bit too bland... And it looks like there's nowhere else to go in the TARDIS BUT the console room which annoys me too.

Quote:
Possibly, I don't know. He just doesn't strike me as the right type. Not sure I'll ever adapt to this one--not if I haven't yet, considering how many times I've seen it Wink


I think he was probably more of a victim of them writing him like the Terminator than anything else lol.

Quote:
It really is. I find the discussions a bit mind-numbing past the first few comments, generally, so I don't often venture in there, but I'm always seeing what folks are trading.


And I just managed to nab War of the Daleks for less than a tenner, so I'm happy with that Smile.

I would have replied yesterday, but I've been ill with a head cold so I just didn't do anything much yesterday lol.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message AIM Address Yahoo Messenger MSN Messenger
Saphira



Joined: 14 Jul 2006
Posts: 142
Location: New Jersey

PostPosted: Mon Sep 18, 2006 5:29 pm    Post subject: Re: General DW discussion, moved from the BBC7 thread Reply with quote

NimaGraven wrote:
The writing doesn't do Tennant justice. But then you could say that about some of the Doctors in the 80s also Sad.


True. It's only recently that I've realized just how much the writing was to blame for Colin Baker's era, for one thing. And I fear it didn't much improve for Sylvester McCoy.

Quote:
I'd recommend it. It's not an instant classic Who serial, but it's definitely a fun one. Jon Pertwee is pretty good in it but some people say he's a bit too much like Troughton in that one?


Well, it was his first story, so you'd expect a bit of that. I'll definitely check it out Smile

Quote:
Well, I'm a bit mean. If she couldn't accept that I simply had an opinion and I'd been explaining countless times on comparison why old is better than new I would have either A) Started to ignore the comments or B) Prevent her from posting on the LJ.


I just went back and looked at the post in question to see exactly how it ended. The reason I hesitated to be really firm with her was because I met her via her sister, who is a fabulous person and we still get on famously--I didn't want to end up causing buckets of bad blood. She viewed "It was never like this before" as an invalid argument, even to the point of saying that there's really no reason to look for consistency in the character of the Doctor, which blew my mind. And as a result, she just couldn't grasp the idea that the history of the show might just be a valid thing, and have a bearing on how you see the new one.

As it turned out, about a month after that post, she assumed that, because I'd managed to fall and hurt myself while I was in London (because I'm a klutz!), and because it was so miserably hot, I was having a rotten time there. Having a rotten time in London is really not physically possible for me, as far as I'm aware, so when I said no, actually, I'm having a great time, bruises and all (and wondered if she'd actually bothered to READ my posts), she decided it was time for us to part ways. I was a little surprised, but mostly I was just relieved.

Quote:
My main problem with "Fear Her" is that it's a complete copy of the story in "The Idiot's Lantern" in my eyes.


Hmm. Sort of, I guess, though I've only watched each of them once, and it's been a while, so I'm not saying that from any position of reasonable recollection Wink

Quote:
The ending was really silly though, you're right...


Even sillier were the petitions that immediately sprang up in an attempt to make that scene a reality :: headdesk ::

Quote:
SPOILER:
*
*
*
*
As a story on it's own, it's a great story, but in the context of the season, it just seemed wrong to do to the Doctor. Maybe I'm clutching at straws, there's no real evidence to support he "loved" Mme de pompadeur but... You know... It came out that way too with the "dancing" and stuff. I hope this makes a bit of sense lol


Honestly, anything that puts the Doctor in any sort of romantic situation--seriously so--makes me really uncomfortable. I mean, I don't really need to be watching him hook up with every interesting woman who comes along, and that's my fear now that we've set this precedent with Rose (who, by the way, I really did not like by the end of the second series. I was SO ready to see her go). As for Mme de Pompadour, I gotta say... if he was actually in love with her, it's only one step away from love-at-first-sight and I just don't buy that, in the space of an hour, he'd be THAT besotted. I could be wrong, but that just seems awfully quick, for him.

Quote:
Hm, yeah, I guess you got a point that it's what the Cybermen do that is more scary than what they look like.... But in terms of looks and the way the new Cybermen act my main gripe is that...

SPOILER:
*
*
*
*
They're too comical. The whole ending to Doomsday was fancrap. Daleks V Cybermen? Yes. You could see it happening, but it could have been done so much better and more seriously. At the end I was just laughing because of all the "Exterminate" and "Deletes" being thrown around...


I agree. It was like a little kid playing with action figures in his room rather than an actual episode. And that's just ridiculous.

Quote:
The Cybermen have also stopped me from ever viewing the Borg in a positive light ever again also Wink.


Oh, the Borg are SUCH a Cyber-ripoff!!! Smile

Quote:
Very true. It's more a get out of jail free card for writers now than it was in the past. At least the TVM could resolve itself with the sonic screwdriver only appearing right at the end Wink.


It really is a get-out-of-jail-free card. I understand RTD saying that you don't want a locked door to get in his way, and I can even see my way clear to being able to fix barbed wire with it, because it did not actually magically solve the problem at hand. But some of the stuff we've seen it used for during this past season is just going too far. And you're right about the TVM--it was there, but only at the very beginning (when SM uses it backwards, since he never had one, and they blur the screwdriver head so you can't tell he did it wrong) and the very end.

Quote:
Oh, for some reason when I wrote I loved it I thought we were talking about the 8th doctors console room! haha.


Oh, I was, but then I tossed in the new one for good measure without, apparently, making that terribly clear Wink The TVM console room has grown on me, but I'm still not so wild about the steel girders, which look totally out of place given the other stuff. And the markings on the console--come on, earth dates only? Makes no sense. Otherwise, I like the library-ish feel of it, though you could almost assume there's no other living space and so he just lives in that one room.

Quote:
Yeah, the new one isn't bad, it just looks a bit too bland...


The green-ness of it is what made me think of the Master's TARDIS (from "Planet of Fire," I think?). And I have heard that we're supposed to be seeing more of it next year, so hopefully that concern will be addressed!

Quote:
I think he was probably more of a victim of them writing him like the Terminator than anything else lol.


Well, and the way he just chewed up the scenery and then spit it back out was a bit much for me Smile

Quote:
And I just managed to nab War of the Daleks for less than a tenner, so I'm happy with that Smile.


Yay! See, I told you it could be done!! Smile

I hope you're feeling better soon!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
NimaGraven



Joined: 21 Aug 2006
Posts: 69
Location: Liverpool, UK

PostPosted: Tue Sep 19, 2006 3:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Saphira wrote:
True. It's only recently that I've realized just how much the writing was to blame for Colin Baker's era, for one thing. And I fear it didn't much improve for Sylvester McCoy.


A lot of people consider it blasphemy, but I loved Colin Baker as the Doctor. Though I think some people consider him slightly too "anti-heroish" to be a true Doctor.. I actually think he was a refreshing change. We've had so many different "types" of personalities with the regenerations and we finally got one that was a little more narky. I like the idea of that.

I just can't get Tom Baker to grow on me, as much as everyone loves him.. I have no idea why. I think he's good as the Doctor, but he doesn't stand out in my mind like Paul McGann or Colin Baker did.

Oh well, it's not a bad thing..

Sylvester Mccoy being someone's favourite doctor is a different thing though..... Wink.

Quote:
Well, it was his first story, so you'd expect a bit of that. I'll definitely check it out Smile


Yeah, of course, I'm only going on what other people have said across on OG though as I've not actually seen any Troughton stories though my friend says Troughton is really good.

Quote:

I just went back and looked at the post in question to see exactly how it ended. The reason I hesitated to be really firm with her was because I met her via her sister, who is a fabulous person and we still get on famously--I didn't want to end up causing buckets of bad blood. She viewed "It was never like this before" as an invalid argument, even to the point of saying that there's really no reason to look for consistency in the character of the Doctor, which blew my mind. And as a result, she just couldn't grasp the idea that the history of the show might just be a valid thing, and have a bearing on how you see the new one.

As it turned out, about a month after that post, she assumed that, because I'd managed to fall and hurt myself while I was in London (because I'm a klutz!), and because it was so miserably hot, I was having a rotten time there. Having a rotten time in London is really not physically possible for me, as far as I'm aware, so when I said no, actually, I'm having a great time, bruises and all (and wondered if she'd actually bothered to READ my posts), she decided it was time for us to part ways. I was a little surprised, but mostly I was just relieved.


Sheesh. This is why I'm careful on LJ! Too many fools on the internet (Sorry!)....

...And I'm gobsmacked that someone can disregard the old Doctor Who when it comes to the new stuff in terms of continuity....

...But then with the state of the writing, that might be a good thing? Haha, who wants to associate the new stuff with the old stuff after all?! Wink

Me and my friend had that discussion the other day. We agreed we can't call it season 27 or season 28 and it had to stay 1 and 2 because associating it with the old stuff was just dragging it down Wink.

But if she's gone, perhaps you can start publicly posting again?

Quote:
Hmm. Sort of, I guess, though I've only watched each of them once, and it's been a while, so I'm not saying that from any position of reasonable recollection Wink


There was definitely differences between both, but the premise and main plot was basically the same as in..:

People getting sucked into TV/Pieces of paper by some other being

Maybe if one of them ended up in season 3 and another one in season 2, then that'd be okay.

Quote:
Even sillier were the petitions that immediately sprang up in an attempt to make that scene a reality :: headdesk ::


Oh my.. LOL! That's terrible Smile.

Quote:
Honestly, anything that puts the Doctor in any sort of romantic situation--seriously so--makes me really uncomfortable. I mean, I don't really need to be watching him hook up with every interesting woman who comes along, and that's my fear now that we've set this precedent with Rose (who, by the way, I really did not like by the end of the second series. I was SO ready to see her go). As for Mme de Pompadour, I gotta say... if he was actually in love with her, it's only one step away from love-at-first-sight and I just don't buy that, in the space of an hour, he'd be THAT besotted. I could be wrong, but that just seems awfully quick, for him.


Ah, of course, I have to agree with you on this. Like I've said countless amount of times, if they're going to do a romantic situation with the Doctor it'd have to be written -incredibly- well... Otherwise the whole thing just ends up feeling cliched and silly. And I think everyone felt the same about Rose.. Maybe even Billie Piper herself lol. They ruined everything in season 2 by having the Doctor kiss practically -everyone- which made the Rose thing seem even more stupid..! And you're right over Mme de Pompadour.. I liked the story, but it did seem a little daft. I guess he was "happy" he'd found someone who "understood" him is a little more accurate a description? I've got nothing against them writing something like that for the Doctor as long as they do it well.. As long as it isn't too mushy or something and leaves something to the imagination. I can't really explain it better than that.. I just think if they were going to write one it'd be nice as a "sub story" that fans can talk about (With it being totally obvious that it's there) but at the same time it should only be a "sub story" with only little references now and again that it even exists between the Doctor and someone else. I don't want them to be running around, holding hands, mushy mushy I love you crap and stuff... Because it isn't what Doctor Who is about and I don't doubt his capability for him to feel something for a companion... Problem is that the new stuff seems to focus on the more mushy and it brings the tone right away from what Doctor Who is about. To make it worse, not only is it mushy, but it's that problem again, if they're going to do it... Don't make him into a stud that kisses everyone. Please. lol.

Quote:
I agree. It was like a little kid playing with action figures in his room rather than an actual episode. And that's just ridiculous.


At that point in the episode I was actually giggling... And now when I look back I think "It was meant to be serious, why did you giggle?" But it was honestly very stupid to do that in the episode.

Quote:
Oh, the Borg are SUCH a Cyber-ripoff!!! Smile


Tell me about it. I'm a big Trek fan, especially TNG, but a lot of TNG is a Doctor Who rip off.... Look at Q for instance. (And don't get me started on the episode that was called Q Who?)

Quote:
It really is a get-out-of-jail-free card. I understand RTD saying that you don't want a locked door to get in his way, and I can even see my way clear to being able to fix barbed wire with it, because it did not actually magically solve the problem at hand. But some of the stuff we've seen it used for during this past season is just going too far. And you're right about the TVM--it was there, but only at the very beginning (when SM uses it backwards, since he never had one, and they blur the screwdriver head so you can't tell he did it wrong) and the very end.


True. I seem to remember a bit in the Tom Baker serial "Talons of Weng-Chiang" where he managed to pick a lock WITHOUT the use of a sonic screwdriver.. lol.

"Love and Monsters" is an example of the sonic screwdriver doing stupid things...

Does that mean it's a god device now? Rolling Eyes

Quote:
Oh, I was, but then I tossed in the new one for good measure without, apparently, making that terribly clear Wink The TVM console room has grown on me, but I'm still not so wild about the steel girders, which look totally out of place given the other stuff. And the markings on the console--come on, earth dates only? Makes no sense. Otherwise, I like the library-ish feel of it, though you could almost assume there's no other living space and so he just lives in that one room. The green-ness of it is what made me think of the Master's TARDIS (from "Planet of Fire," I think?). And I have heard that we're supposed to be seeing more of it next year, so hopefully that concern will be addressed!


Ha. True. Can you believe I've not seen any episodes with The Master in yet? Well, other than the TVM Smile.

And yay, the inside of the TARDIS. Hopefully theres no eyes of harmony lurking this time lol.

Who do you think would be ideal to play the 11th Doctor?

I was thinking about it.. And I'd love to see Bill Nighy have a crack at it. Even if he's a little too old now.. And I was thinking David Thewlis may be ok at it..

Me and a friend thought about Alan Rickman then decided he'd be *Takes a deep breath*: too-over-the-top-with-huge-raised-eyebrows-and-too-weird-a-way-of-talking.

Phew.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message AIM Address Yahoo Messenger MSN Messenger
Saphira



Joined: 14 Jul 2006
Posts: 142
Location: New Jersey

PostPosted: Tue Sep 19, 2006 2:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

NimaGraven wrote:
A lot of people consider it blasphemy, but I loved Colin Baker as the Doctor. Though I think some people consider him slightly too "anti-heroish" to be a true Doctor.. I actually think he was a refreshing change. We've had so many different "types" of personalities with the regenerations and we finally got one that was a little more narky. I like the idea of that.


I'm not sure you're wrong. And in fact, I should stop saying I didn't like him, because I'm not sure that that's the case at all. I can say, emphatically, that I didn't like his stories. I don't think I did such a good job of distinguishing the one from the other, and therefore have always said I didn't like Six, but he certainly was not the bigger problem, and possibly not the problem at all. (I was pleasantly surprised at how much I liked him on audio in The Sirens of Time, so I may give more of his audios a go--with better writing, it may turn out I quite like him! Same for Seven!)

Quote:
I just can't get Tom Baker to grow on me, as much as everyone loves him.. I have no idea why. I think he's good as the Doctor, but he doesn't stand out in my mind like Paul McGann or Colin Baker did.


I like Tom just fine, but he did play the role too long--it got to where he was almost a parody of himself. I never disliked him, but I always liked Peter Davison better--though that's as much because he was so damn cute, and because everyone else loved Tom and I've always gone for the underdog, as anything else Wink

Quote:
Sylvester Mccoy being someone's favourite doctor is a different thing though..... Wink.


I was surprised when I realized recently how many people are serious Seven fans. I had similar problems with him as with Six--if I am totally grossed out by a story (which happened with both--the slugs grossed me out with Six, and I've never seen licorice allsorts the same way since "The Happiness Patrol"), I have trouble getting myself to watch more, and it did seem like there was more of a tendency toward violent/disgusting for its own sake in the last two regenerations. It's unfortunate, because I think they were probably both fine characters who just got sketchy scripts (and we won't even go into how impossible it was to follow some of Seven's stories!)

Quote:
Yeah, of course, I'm only going on what other people have said across on OG though as I've not actually seen any Troughton stories though my friend says Troughton is really good.


I think I've only seen him in the multi-Doctor stories--Three, Five, and Two--but I've always liked him on that basis. I'd love to get my hands on "The War Games," if nothing else. I'm intrigued by the idea of that one.

Quote:
Sheesh. This is why I'm careful on LJ! Too many fools on the internet (Sorry!)....


No need--it's true! Fortunately, there are some oases online that manage to be relatively free of the crazy Smile

Quote:
...And I'm gobsmacked that someone can disregard the old Doctor Who when it comes to the new stuff in terms of continuity....


So am I. She was going on the idea that the new series is a revamp rather than a continuation, which is fine if there are no references back to the original series. But there are, so...whatever. (Though, this is the same person who, when I expressed shock at the fact she'd never seen The Young Ones, replied that she doesn't like "stupid humor." Oh-kay...I'll just go on my merry way then, thanks!)

Quote:
...But then with the state of the writing, that might be a good thing? Haha, who wants to associate the new stuff with the old stuff after all?! Wink


Unfortunately, I fear this sentiment is becoming more and more true!

Quote:
But if she's gone, perhaps you can start publicly posting again?


I might. I don't know. I do wonder if analysing an episode to death is unproductive, in that it just encourages you to think badly of it. That's part of why I stopped posting about the show--that, and to eliminate source material for her. I don't know what I'll do this next series, though. (As for my journal, I'm all-but Friends Only just because I teach, and there's far too much danger in public posts! Wink )

Quote:
There was definitely differences between both, but the premise and main plot was basically the same as in..:


Yes, that's the first thing that came to mind for me, too, though I hadn't noticed it before. You definitely have a point.

Quote:
Quote:
Even sillier were the petitions that immediately sprang up in an attempt to make that scene a reality :: headdesk ::


Oh my.. LOL! That's terrible Smile.


Isn't it?!? People are just crazy sometimes.

Quote:
Ah, of course, I have to agree with you on this. Like I've said countless amount of times, if they're going to do a romantic situation with the Doctor it'd have to be written -incredibly- well... Otherwise the whole thing just ends up feeling cliched and silly. And I think everyone felt the same about Rose.. Maybe even Billie Piper herself lol. They ruined everything in season 2 by having the Doctor kiss practically -everyone- which made the Rose thing seem even more stupid..! And you're right over Mme de Pompadour.. I liked the story, but it did seem a little daft. I guess he was "happy" he'd found someone who "understood" him is a little more accurate a description? I've got nothing against them writing something like that for the Doctor as long as they do it well.. As long as it isn't too mushy or something and leaves something to the imagination. I can't really explain it better than that.. I just think if they were going to write one it'd be nice as a "sub story" that fans can talk about (With it being totally obvious that it's there) but at the same time it should only be a "sub story" with only little references now and again that it even exists between the Doctor and someone else. I don't want them to be running around, holding hands, mushy mushy I love you crap and stuff... Because it isn't what Doctor Who is about and I don't doubt his capability for him to feel something for a companion... Problem is that the new stuff seems to focus on the more mushy and it brings the tone right away from what Doctor Who is about. To make it worse, not only is it mushy, but it's that problem again, if they're going to do it... Don't make him into a stud that kisses everyone. Please. lol.


Yes yes yes yes! Agree 110%! I just don't want to watch "As the TARDIS Turns" or "Doctor Casanova" (no pun intended, honestly!). It detracts from the character and the whole focus of the show, and I didn't sign on for a soap opera. The fact that he lives so long also basically means he'd be shagging someone different every few years, and that idea is such a turnoff, too. But mostly, as you say, that's just NOT the Doctor. He's about going off and fighting the Big Bad, not figuring out who he's dragging to bed tonight (god, can't believe I even typed that!!!).

Quote:
Tell me about it. I'm a big Trek fan, especially TNG, but a lot of TNG is a Doctor Who rip off....


Have you seen the screencaps from the episode (I don't remember which one) showing the names of all the actors who played the Doctor? It's hidden in one of the computer screens as filler text, but it's there. If you haven't, let me know--I think I know where the caps are. Not important, but kinda cool Smile

Quote:
True. I seem to remember a bit in the Tom Baker serial "Talons of Weng-Chiang" where he managed to pick a lock WITHOUT the use of a sonic screwdriver.. lol.


Yes, I remember him picking locks on several occasions! No idea why anymore--maybe the screwdriver was too loud--but I know I've seen it!

Quote:
"Love and Monsters" is an example of the sonic screwdriver doing stupid things...


Oh god, yes. Very stupid!

Quote:
Does that mean it's a god device now? Rolling Eyes


Oh, don't even go there!

Quote:
Ha. True. Can you believe I've not seen any episodes with The Master in yet? Well, other than the TVM Smile.


No way!!! Oh, that's just tragic! You need to do something about that, pronto! Start with the Delgado Master, then be sure you see The Deadly Assassin, which is an excellent story, The Keeper of Traken, Logopolis, and Castrovalva are a sequence that all include him, and I still think Planet of Fire is an excellent Master ep.

Quote:
And yay, the inside of the TARDIS. Hopefully theres no eyes of harmony lurking this time lol.


Please, no! Not without a DAMN good explanation, anyway!

Quote:
Who do you think would be ideal to play the 11th Doctor?


Ooh, good question. I remember having those discussions ten years ago, and thinking that Colm Meany from Star Trek would be good. Of course, that was ten years ago, but having seen him at the one and only convention I've ever been to, I could see it at the time. Not sure about now. I also think Rowan Atkinson wouldn't have been bad, all Comic Relief-ing aside (I honestly thought he and Jonathan Pryce were brilliant). But now they're going with guys who are so much younger, so I don't know. I'd have to think about it a bit.

Quote:
I was thinking about it.. And I'd love to see Bill Nighy have a crack at it. Even if he's a little too old now.. And I was thinking David Thewlis may be ok at it..


Oh, I love Bill Nighy. Never heard of him before Love Actually but I have loved him in that, and everything I've seen him in since. He's just fabulous, even as a zombie Wink It'd definitely be interesting to see him play the Doctor, though considering how many of his typical mannerisms came out even when he played a giant squid, he may be too Bill Nighy for the part. I only know David Thewlis from the Harry Potter films, but he didn't really leave much of an impression on me.

Quote:
Me and a friend thought about Alan Rickman then decided he'd be *Takes a deep breath*: too-over-the-top-with-huge-raised-eyebrows-and-too-weird-a-way-of-talking.


Hee! I love Alan Rickman, but I just can't see him in that part. I was reading in the Complete Eighth Doctor magazine a month or two ago that they tried, at one point, to get Alan Rickman or Patrick Stewart, and I just can't see either. PS is wonderful but has way too much Trek baggage, and AR is just...not the Doctor. He's many other fabulous characters, but not that one, IMO.

BTW, before I forget--have you seen the article today where Rusty says we're stuck on Earth for the foreseeable future? Gah! The man has NO imagination!!!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
emay
Site Admin


Joined: 29 Jan 2006
Posts: 1240
Location: Nashville, TN

PostPosted: Wed Sep 20, 2006 6:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
I just can't get Tom Baker to grow on me, as much as everyone loves him.. I have no idea why. I think he's good as the Doctor, but he doesn't stand out in my mind like Paul McGann or Colin Baker did.


Tom Baker was the first Doctor I'd seen. I was in medical school at the time and watched the show late at night on a black and white TV with poor reception. I was captivated by this time traveling smart aleck alien. But as I've said I got more classic Who out of the Target novelizations because most of the places I lived didn't air the show (and I was royally PO'd when my husband ditched my Doctor Who and Star Trek novels some years ago--he knows better not to do anything like that again--LOL!).

Quote:
Sylvester Mccoy being someone's favourite doctor is a different thing though..... Wink.


Heehee, and I know such a person on the PMEB list--she's not over here though. She's said that she likes Paul McGann fans better than Paul himself.

Quote:
Yeah, of course, I'm only going on what other people have said across on OG though as I've not actually seen any Troughton stories though my friend says Troughton is really good.


I saw him in a story with the Cyberman and loved him and Colin Baker together in the Two Doctors.

Quote:
(As for my journal, I'm all-but Friends Only just because I teach, and there's far too much danger in public posts! Wink )


Do you ever run into your students in online forums?

Quote:
Don't make him into a stud that kisses everyone.


Haha, the Doctor as Captain Kirk.

Quote:
Have you seen the screencaps from the episode (I don't remember which one) showing the names of all the actors who played the Doctor? It's hidden in one of the computer screens as filler text, but it's there. If you haven't, let me know--I think I know where the caps are. Not important, but kinda cool Smile


I'd love to see these. Smile

Quote:
Who do you think would be ideal to play the 11th Doctor?


The pendulum could swing back to an older version of the Doctor. I'd like Bill Nighy or David Warner. Warner could have been the Fourth Doctor but had bigger fish to fry at the time.

Quote:
Oh, I love Bill Nighy. Never heard of him before Love Actually but I have loved him in that, and everything I've seen him in since. He's just fabulous, even as a zombie Wink


I loved him in Still Crazy, and he was in Fairy Tale with Paul.

Quote:
BTW, before I forget--have you seen the article today where Rusty says we're stuck on Earth for the foreseeable future? Gah! The man has NO imagination!!!


I was incredulous when I read this bit. Yes, I know the cost is prohibitive if you wanna make like Peter Jackson and Lord of the Rings. However, a lot of CGI on TV looks so fake. Anyway, I'd have no problems to suggest an alien world by using a forest or the proverbial rock quarry.

I came across a short DWM interview with Justin Richards, the BBC book editor, who said that the PDAs were on hold at the moment and that the books based on the Ninth and Tenth Docs outsold the PDAs at a ten to one ratio. I'll type this bit up later.

Estelle
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail AIM Address
Saphira



Joined: 14 Jul 2006
Posts: 142
Location: New Jersey

PostPosted: Wed Sep 20, 2006 7:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

emay wrote:
I was royally PO'd when my husband ditched my Doctor Who and Star Trek novels some years ago


OMG, and he's still alive?!? I'm not that into Trek (I'll watch it, but that's about as far as it goes), but if anyone EVER did something like that with my Who books, well... it'd be grounds for divorce, at the very least!

Quote:
Do you ever run into your students in online forums?


I have not, and hope like hell I never do!

Quote:
Haha, the Doctor as Captain Kirk.


Ack! Now there's an image that speaks volumes! I may have to use that in future--especially because Kirk didn't take anyone with him on the ship, he just had little flings here and there on the side. I suspect few people would be psyched about Kirk having a long-term on-ship relationship!

Quote:
I'd love to see these. Smile


Your wish is my command Smile These are from "The Neutral Zone"--the first ep with any connection to the Borg (before we know what they are). They spelled Davison wrong but I figure ya still gotta give them some credit!





Quote:
The pendulum could swing back to an older version of the Doctor. I'd like Bill Nighy or David Warner. Warner could have been the Fourth Doctor but had bigger fish to fry at the time.


I'm not sure that Warner isn't too old for it now, fabulous as he is. You know he's done a Doctor Who Unbound disc for Big Finish? He's the Doctor, with Nick Courtney back as the Brigadier. It's called "Sympathy for the Devil." Haven't listened to it, but am intrigued by it.

Quote:
I loved him in Still Crazy, and he was in Fairy Tale with Paul.


I haven't seen Still Crazy, but I did recognize his voice before I saw him in Fairy Tale Smile I was amazed how young he looked--I know it was ten years ago, but I was really surprised.

Quote:
I was incredulous when I read this bit. Yes, I know the cost is prohibitive if you wanna make like Peter Jackson and Lord of the Rings. However, a lot of CGI on TV looks so fake. Anyway, I'd have no problems to suggest an alien world by using a forest or the proverbial rock quarry.


I agree with you 100%, and I think most people would--certainly the people I know have said the same thing. I mean, pretty soon the show's going to lose more credibility because it never GOES anywhere than it would from using a quarry or a forest. Fer cryin' out loud, they used a cave for the Sycorax ship in TCI, so what's the problem? I don't *want* episodes that are all-CGI all-the-time anyway! It's TV, not a film.

I'm more amazed at the people on OG who are totally okay with it. Or who honestly think that being on a satellite orbiting Earth, or a planet called New Earth which is obviously standing in for the original, is the same as going to visit an alien planet. Cripe.

Quote:
I'll type this bit up later.


Thanks--I've been wondering exactly what he said!


Last edited by Saphira on Sun Sep 24, 2006 6:25 am; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
NimaGraven



Joined: 21 Aug 2006
Posts: 69
Location: Liverpool, UK

PostPosted: Sun Sep 24, 2006 2:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Saphira wrote:
I'm not sure you're wrong. And in fact, I should stop saying I didn't like him, because I'm not sure that that's the case at all. I can say, emphatically, that I didn't like his stories. I don't think I did such a good job of distinguishing the one from the other, and therefore have always said I didn't like Six, but he certainly was not the bigger problem, and possibly not the problem at all. (I was pleasantly surprised at how much I liked him on audio in The Sirens of Time, so I may give more of his audios a go--with better writing, it may turn out I quite like him! Same for Seven!)


Oh! Please do give Colin Baker's audios a go. Especially the ones with Evelyn. They're fantastic. Start off with The Marian Conspiracy!! Smile

Quote:
I like Tom just fine, but he did play the role too long--it got to where he was almost a parody of himself. I never disliked him, but I always liked Peter Davison better--though that's as much because he was so damn cute,

and because everyone else loved Tom and I've always gone for the underdog, as anything else Wink


I don't NOT like Tom.. I just didn't take to him like I've taken to some other of the Doctors. Peter Davison was a decent incarnation, it's just the writing in the 80s seriously started to let it down.

Quote:
I was surprised when I realized recently how many people are serious Seven fans. I had similar problems with him as with Six--if I am totally grossed out by a story (which happened with both--the slugs grossed me out with Six, and I've never seen licorice allsorts the same way since "The Happiness Patrol"), I have trouble getting myself to watch more, and it did seem like there was more of a tendency toward violent/disgusting for its own sake in the last two regenerations. It's unfortunate, because I think they were probably both fine characters who just got sketchy scripts (and we won't even go into how impossible it was to follow some of Seven's stories!)


Hm, yeah, I understand what you mean. My friend says Ghost Light is just an incredibly long winded way of saying:

There's a ghost in the basement.

lol Smile.

Quote:
I think I've only seen him in the multi-Doctor stories--Three, Five, and Two--but I've always liked him on that basis. I'd love to get my hands on "The War Games," if nothing else. I'm intrigued by the idea of that one.


Oh, I'm not alone then.. From what I've heard he's pretty popular.

Quote:
So am I. She was going on the idea that the new series is a revamp rather than a continuation, which is fine if there are no references back to the original series. But there are, so...whatever. (Though, this is the same person who, when I expressed shock at the fact she'd never seen The Young Ones, replied that she doesn't like "stupid humor." Oh-kay...I'll just go on my merry way then, thanks!)


Lol. A revamp rather than a continuation.... So that's why there's daleks, cybermen, the doctor, a tardis and a time war that destroyed the gallifrey of old? As for the young ones, she did have a little point, but I wouldn't have called it stupid.. Surreal and silly perhaps. I have both DVDs and it's just shocked me how unfunny I find it now compared to how I did 5 years ago. It was definitely the start of the alternative comedy route though.. And the band in the show idea was fantastic.

Quote:
I might. I don't know. I do wonder if analysing an episode to death is unproductive, in that it just encourages you to think badly of it. That's part of why I stopped posting about the show--that, and to eliminate source material for her. I don't know what I'll do this next series, though. (As for my journal, I'm all-but Friends Only just because I teach, and there's far too much danger in public posts! Wink )


I don't consider it unproductive. I think it would help me get stuff off my head if the episode was truly awful.

Quote:
Yes yes yes yes! Agree 110%! I just don't want to watch "As the TARDIS Turns" or "Doctor Casanova" (no pun intended, honestly!). It detracts from the character and the whole focus of the show, and I didn't sign on for a soap opera. The fact that he lives so long also basically means he'd be shagging someone different every few years, and that idea is such a turnoff, too. But mostly, as you say, that's just NOT the Doctor. He's about going off and fighting the Big Bad, not figuring out who he's dragging to bed tonight (god, can't believe I even typed that!!!).


Indeed. I think we can all safely say he's bound to have done "IT" somewhere along the line, he's over 1,000 years old, travels with a bucket load of female companions and has a granddaughter. Of course, you may believe in the Lungbarrow Loom stuff.... But I'm more inclined to believe that he somewhat probably embraces sexuality rather than abhors it...

I told my friend the other day that I want to put a note on the TARDIS saying "Girls, please don't fall in love with me, note that I used to look like this *Pic of Bill Hartnell*" ... Do you think it'd work? He'd probably only end up being a good advert for Oil of Olay then Wink.

My friend also said that he thinks the Doctor and Rose done "IT" (lol, my codeword for "IT" Razz)... I said I had a big problem with this because if that was true why were they having problems admitting to each other on the beach that they loved each other? Oh, of course, you can have sex WITHOUT love... But considering the time that the Doc and Rose had been travelling together if they HAD done it you'd certainly have expected it to slip out, especially from Rose's side.

After I posted the other post I started to think of other "relationships" that were subtle.. And I came up with a biggy that was Troi and Riker from TNG. How right/wrong is that? I can't remember a lot of Trek, but you always knew there was something between them.. And it certainly wasn't "IN YOUR FACE"...


Quote:
No way!!! Oh, that's just tragic! You need to do something about that, pronto! Start with the Delgado Master, then be sure you see The Deadly Assassin, which is an excellent story, The Keeper of Traken, Logopolis, and Castrovalva are a sequence that all include him, and I still think Planet of Fire is an excellent Master ep.


Haha, don't worry, I plan on seeing him at some point. I've just been busy with other stuff at the moment.

Quote:
Ooh, good question. I remember having those discussions ten years ago, and thinking that Colm Meany from Star Trek would be good. Of course, that was ten years ago, but having seen him at the one and only convention I've ever been to, I could see it at the time. Not sure about now. I also think Rowan Atkinson wouldn't have been bad, all Comic Relief-ing aside (I honestly thought he and Jonathan Pryce were brilliant). But now they're going with guys who are so much younger, so I don't know. I'd have to think about it a bit.


See, my big problem and gripe with Rowan Atkinson is that I used to watch him as a kid doing Mr. Bean.. And I can't get that silly sort of appearance of him in that out of my head.. So if he was the Doctor, I'd always be thinking of him as Mr. Bean Razz.

Quote:
Oh, I love Bill Nighy. Never heard of him before Love Actually but I have loved him in that, and everything I've seen him in since. He's just fabulous, even as a zombie Wink It'd definitely be interesting to see him play the Doctor, though considering how many of his typical mannerisms came out even when he played a giant squid, he may be too Bill Nighy for the part. I only know David Thewlis from the Harry Potter films, but he didn't really leave much of an impression on me.


Bill Nighy is awesome. I loved him in Underworld though I never sat through Love Actually (Thank God!).. My parents did and found him fantastic. He was in Hitchhikers as well amongst others. He's getting a bit old, but I'd love to see him play the Doctor... He'd definitely be really different.

Quote:
Hee! I love Alan Rickman, but I just can't see him in that part. I was reading in the Complete Eighth Doctor magazine a month or two ago that they tried, at one point, to get Alan Rickman or Patrick Stewart, and I just can't see either. PS is wonderful but has way too much Trek baggage, and AR is just...not the Doctor. He's many other fabulous characters, but not that one, IMO.

BTW, before I forget--have you seen the article today where Rusty says we're stuck on Earth for the foreseeable future? Gah! The man has NO imagination!!!


Alan Rickman is too villainy... He just suits the villains roles too much and I think he genuinely enjoys them.. Though he seems like a really nice guy in interviews and stuff. I don't think he'd be a great Doctor, he's just got too many ... too many... EYEBROWS.. lol.

Patrick Stewart will forever be in my head Captain Jean Luc Picard.. Rather like Rowan Atkinson will always be Mr. Bean.

And that genuinely sucks. It proves once again that Rusty is a complete tool. If the old series could do it with an even lesser budget than what they have now then why can't the new? After all, does EVERYTHING have to be achievable with CGI?... I don't mind a forest doubling up for an alien planet. I've never actually conciously thought of it before!

Emay wrote:
Haha, the Doctor as Captain Kirk.


Haha. The scary thing is though, this is almost true if you watch the David Tennant season just gone!!! It is a little bit silly... But oh well.

And the fake wikipedia, uncyclopedia, has William Shatner listed as the first incarnation of the Doctor with Patrick Stewart as the second.. Hehe. I love the silliness of uncyclopedia Very Happy.

Quote:
I was incredulous when I read this bit. Yes, I know the cost is prohibitive if you wanna make like Peter Jackson and Lord of the Rings. However, a lot of CGI on TV looks so fake. Anyway, I'd have no problems to suggest an alien world by using a forest or the proverbial rock quarry.

I came across a short DWM interview with Justin Richards, the BBC book editor, who said that the PDAs were on hold at the moment and that the books based on the Ninth and Tenth Docs outsold the PDAs at a ten to one ratio. I'll type this bit up later.


Psssh. I'd never read an NDA or a TDA.. Not if they're going to be like the new stories on the TV... Smile

I want my PDAs back.

Oh Oh oh. I just finished "The Body Snatchers" last night...

I loved the fact that Litefoot is in it! But it did seem like a bit of a cheap throw in.... The ending where the Zygons got accidentally killed off was a bit shocking and I wasn't truly convinced by Tuval's forgiveness that quickly... (Reminds me a bit of KOTOR and Carth.. Ha, sorry, video game nerdyness coming through there Very Happy). Wow, Sam has some issues in that book though. Getting all jealous over Emmeline... Is this trend going to continue where she just pines after the Doctor constantly instead of doing something about it? lol

Saphira wrote:
I'm more amazed at the people on OG who are totally okay with it. Or who honestly think that being on a satellite orbiting Earth, or a planet called New Earth which is obviously standing in for the original, is the same as going to visit an alien planet. Cripe.


Most of OG are completely in love with Rusty though.... Sad Or it certainly feels that way.

Quote:
I agree with you 100%, and I think most people would--certainly the people I know have said the same thing. I mean, pretty soon the show's going to lose more credibility because it never GOES anywhere than it would from using a quarry or a forest. Fer cryin' out loud, they used a cave for the Sycorax ship in TCI, so what's the problem? I don't *want* episodes that are all-CGI all-the-time anyway! It's TV, not a film.


Agree. Completely..

And nice Star Trek pics Smile.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message AIM Address Yahoo Messenger MSN Messenger
Saphira



Joined: 14 Jul 2006
Posts: 142
Location: New Jersey

PostPosted: Sun Sep 24, 2006 2:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

NimaGraven wrote:
Oh! Please do give Colin Baker's audios a go. Especially the ones with Evelyn. They're fantastic. Start off with The Marian Conspiracy!! Smile


Is that the first one? Or just the first one you'd recommend? I know there's not a story arc as such for Five, Six, and Seven, so it doesn't matter as much, but I'm just curious. I am planning to give Six and Seven a try on their own and see how I like them. After all, I need something to help stretch out the Eight audios so I don't inhale them all at once (and Five's a foregone conclusion, at least where I'm concerned! Wink )

Quote:
I don't NOT like Tom.. I just didn't take to him like I've taken to some other of the Doctors. Peter Davison was a decent incarnation, it's just the writing in the 80s seriously started to let it down.


True, though in some cases I'm not sure it was the writing so much as the realisation of the writing (the Myrka comes to mind!). And I was surprised to see that the 40th anniversary special edition of DWM survey ranked The Caves of Androzani the best story ever. (Of course, that one always made me sad because it was Five's last, and my dislike of Peri didn't help it a whole lot in my estimation. I've just bought the DVD, though, so I should give it another go and see if my opinion changes!)

Quote:
Hm, yeah, I understand what you mean. My friend says Ghost Light is just an incredibly long winded way of saying:

There's a ghost in the basement.

lol Smile.


Heh. Yes.

Quote:
Lol. A revamp rather than a continuation.... So that's why there's daleks, cybermen, the doctor, a tardis and a time war that destroyed the gallifrey of old?


Not to mention folks like Sarah Jane, and acknowledgement of previous regenerations. Yeah.

Quote:
As for the young ones, she did have a little point, but I wouldn't have called it stupid.. Surreal and silly perhaps. I have both DVDs and it's just shocked me how unfunny I find it now compared to how I did 5 years ago. It was definitely the start of the alternative comedy route though.. And the band in the show idea was fantastic.


I never caught it until 10+ years ago, and loved it then. Haven't seen it since, so I don't know how I'd see it now, but I know there were some brilliant lines, and I remember the Dallas take-off relatively well. In any case, it was her thoroughly dismissive answer that really got up my nose!

Quote:
I don't consider it unproductive. I think it would help me get stuff off my head if the episode was truly awful.


I think it can, but I also found myself wondering if I was just reinforcing the stuff I didn't like and making it harder for me to see the good things about an episode. I don't know--we'll see!

Quote:
Indeed. I think we can all safely say he's bound to have done "IT" somewhere along the line, he's over 1,000 years old, travels with a bucket load of female companions and has a granddaughter. Of course, you may believe in the Lungbarrow Loom stuff.... But I'm more inclined to believe that he somewhat probably embraces sexuality rather than abhors it...


Certainly, "IT" has to have happened at some point, yes--Susan has to have come from somewhere, though I suppose she could be adopted! I just haven't ever had the sense that it's something that's all that important to him--he's about saving the world and righting wrongs, and with all the wrongs in the world, who has the time? Wink I've never read Lungbarrow, but the more I hear about it, the more I think it's ridiculous. Of course, I probably shouldn't pass judgment without reading it, but...ehh.

Quote:
I told my friend the other day that I want to put a note on the TARDIS saying "Girls, please don't fall in love with me, note that I used to look like this *Pic of Bill Hartnell*" ... Do you think it'd work? He'd probably only end up being a good advert for Oil of Olay then Wink.


ROFL! Though I gotta admit, I always thought Bill Hartnell was kind of a cute old guy. Not that I'd want to jump him or anything, but he had that little touch of whimsy that I thought made him adorable--when he wasn't being cranky!

Quote:
My friend also said that he thinks the Doctor and Rose done "IT" (lol, my codeword for "IT" Razz)... I said I had a big problem with this because if that was true why were they having problems admitting to each other on the beach that they loved each other? Oh, of course, you can have sex WITHOUT love... But considering the time that the Doc and Rose had been travelling together if they HAD done it you'd certainly have expected it to slip out, especially from Rose's side.


I have to admit, I can totally see the Doctor, being somewhat emotionally challenged (in that he doesn't often admit he has them, unless the Cyberleader's threatening Tegan's life, or something), having trouble saying something like that. But I wonder if Rose could have felt as insanely strongly about him if they'd gone that far--after all, the pining/UST is generally stronger than the feelings post-resolution. And she just was ridiculous in how attached she was to him. Part of why I damn near hated her by the end of the series.

Quote:
I can't remember a lot of Trek, but you always knew there was something between them.. And it certainly wasn't "IN YOUR FACE"...


I'm trying to remember...didn't we always have the sense, from the very beginning, that there'd been something between them in the past, and it just took them for-bloody-ever to decide if they were going to give it another try? I think that probably explains the subtlety of it--it'd be easier to write in a subtle way, anyway.

Quote:
Haha, don't worry, I plan on seeing him at some point. I've just been busy with other stuff at the moment.


Ahh, phew!! Smile

Quote:
See, my big problem and gripe with Rowan Atkinson is that I used to watch him as a kid doing Mr. Bean.. And I can't get that silly sort of appearance of him in that out of my head.. So if he was the Doctor, I'd always be thinking of him as Mr. Bean Razz.


Yeah, I think somewhere between Blackadder and Bean would have been the perfect time for RA to do the show, were he ever going to do it. It's probably too late now.

Quote:
lBill Nighy is awesome. I loved him in Underworld though I never sat through Love Actually (Thank God!).. My parents did and found him fantastic. He was in Hitchhikers as well amongst others. He's getting a bit old, but I'd love to see him play the Doctor... He'd definitely be really different.


IMHO, he was the best thing in Hitchhiker's, and this is coming from a longtime Rickman fan. I liked Martin Freeman, too, but the rest of it? Ehh. Oh, wait--I though Stephen Fry was perfect for the Guide. So really, it's Bill and Stephen and that's it. And I'll eventually end up owning the DVD just for Slartibartfast and the Guide, and skip all the other stuff.

I have to confess that I adore Love Actually in spite of the fact that it's an unbelievably flawed movie. So many of my favorite people are in it, and it's set in London, and I saw it just before I got back there for the first time in almost ten years, so... yeah. Soft spot even though they really needed to cut a storyline or two, among other things. I tend to haul it out when I get really homesick for London.

Quote:
Alan Rickman is too villainy... He just suits the villains roles too much and I think he genuinely enjoys them.. Though he seems like a really nice guy in interviews and stuff. I don't think he'd be a great Doctor, he's just got too many ... too many... EYEBROWS.. lol.


True, but I think my favorite role of his is Colonel Brandon, where he's the total opposite of a villain. I think he could have done it, but like Rowan Atkinson, the time has passed.

Quote:
Patrick Stewart will forever be in my head Captain Jean Luc Picard.. Rather like Rowan Atkinson will always be Mr. Bean.


Agreed--for better or worse!

Quote:
And that genuinely sucks. It proves once again that Rusty is a complete tool. If the old series could do it with an even lesser budget than what they have now then why can't the new? After all, does EVERYTHING have to be achievable with CGI?... I don't mind a forest doubling up for an alien planet. I've never actually conciously thought of it before!


I know, me either! If the WRITING is strong enough, the set's just not as important! And come on, isn't going to a real forest better than trying to build one on a soundstage? Sheeeeeeeesh.

Quote:
Emay wrote:
Haha, the Doctor as Captain Kirk.


Haha. The scary thing is though, this is almost true if you watch the David Tennant season just gone!!! It is a little bit silly... But oh well.


True. I'll be curious to see what people think of this series, since it starts on SciFi this coming Friday (they're showing TCI and New Earth back-to-back Friday night).

Quote:
Psssh. I'd never read an NDA or a TDA.. Not if they're going to be like the new stories on the TV... Smile

I want my PDAs back.


I can't deny, I really don't have much interest in the books for any Doctor other than Eight. I want to read the Eight books because I feel like there's this big gaping hole where the continuity is concerned there. But I don't really have any interest in anyone else's. I do have a few random copies of NAs and PDAs, which I picked up at a used bookstore because they were selling them for $1 each--I have Matrix, Players, and Corpse Marker from the PDA series. I may or may not read them someday--if I do, and I like them, then I might read more. But I don't feel any pressing need.

I'm not too surprised that the new books outsell the PDAs. It's only natural that a lot of new folks, including kids, are interested in them now, and know nothing, or almost nothing, about the classic series. I'd think they'd still be able to sell a respectable number of PDAs, though!

Quote:
I loved the fact that Litefoot is in it! But it did seem like a bit of a cheap throw in.... The ending where the Zygons got accidentally killed off was a bit shocking and I wasn't truly convinced by Tuval's forgiveness that quickly... (Reminds me a bit of KOTOR and Carth.. Ha, sorry, video game nerdyness coming through there Very Happy). Wow, Sam has some issues in that book though. Getting all jealous over Emmeline... Is this trend going to continue where she just pines after the Doctor constantly instead of doing something about it? lol


I liked The Bodysnatchers, but you're right, it did have some issues. The article in the Complete Eighth magazine talks about how the first few books are trying to find their feet and therefore mostly deal with old, familiar foes, and also talk about how Sam got such a poor introduction in The Eight Doctors and never quite found her feet, either. I do think that, despite the fact that credit's given to the "Sam Team" of folks who tried to, apparently, characterize her well, each author had a wildly different idea of what she was like. I'm especially intrigued by the information at the end of Alien Bodies, and will be interested to see how it goes--but I'm not expecting great things from her at this point.

I don't know if you've seen the Complete Eighth mag, but it's interesting--you can find scans at the ZagreusWaits comm on LJ. The bit dealing with the books is here


Saphira wrote:
Most of OG are completely in love with Rusty though.... Sad Or it certainly feels that way.


Agreed. I was looking around there this morning and there's a thread in one of the series forums that says "Where did RTD go wrong?" I was astonished by the number of posts that said "He hasn't!" Eeeeeeep.

Quote:
And nice Star Trek pics Smile.


Hee! Can't really take credit for them (absolutbritish on LJ posted them originally) but I thought you guys would appreciate them!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
NimaGraven



Joined: 21 Aug 2006
Posts: 69
Location: Liverpool, UK

PostPosted: Mon Sep 25, 2006 4:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Saphira wrote:
Is that the first one? Or just the first one you'd recommend? I know there's not a story arc as such for Five, Six, and Seven, so it doesn't matter as much, but I'm just curious. I am planning to give Six and Seven a try on their own and see how I like them. After all, I need something to help stretch out the Eight audios so I don't inhale them all at once (and Five's a foregone conclusion, at least where I'm concerned! Wink )


Noo. It's not the first one. The first one is Whispers of Terror with Peri, which I personally thought was awful. The Marian Conspiracy introduces a pure Big Finish creation called Evelyn, and she's an absolutely wonderful character and really suits the sixth Doctor.

If you're going to give seven a go I really recommend The Fearmonger. I enjoyed that one. Though I don't think everyone did? :S

Quote:
True, though in some cases I'm not sure it was the writing so much as the realisation of the writing (the Myrka comes to mind!). And I was surprised to see that the 40th anniversary special edition of DWM survey ranked The Caves of Androzani the best story ever. (Of course, that one always made me sad because it was Five's last, and my dislike of Peri didn't help it a whole lot in my estimation. I've just bought the DVD, though, so I should give it another go and see if my opinion changes!)


A lot of people say Genesis of the Daleks is the best one ever.. Not for me. I've not seen Caves, so I can't say.. So the one at the top for me is still Inferno. I've got Caves though...

If you dislike Peri I suppose your favourite Colin Baker who story is The Twin Dilemma? Razz

Quote:

Not to mention folks like Sarah Jane, and acknowledgement of previous regenerations. Yeah.


But the whole bit I didn't understand about the Sarah Jane thing after seeing Hand of Fear was...:

"Whine whine whine I thought you were dead bla bla bla...." Ok, that made no sense... But what she says sort of implies that in Hand of Fear there's a big dangerous thing that causes them to split up (I'm tempted to write depart from each other because split up sounds too shippy lol), when in reality they SORT of split mutually and it wasn't like the Doctor was in any danger of dying when they did split up from each other. BTW, I'm definitely not Sarah Janes biggest fan. I find her a bit of a bitch... I love Liz Shaw though and I think it's a shame we didn't see more of her.. The only good thing about Sarah Jane is the andy pandy stuff in Hand of Fear... I want those stripey dungarees!

Quote:
I never caught it until 10+ years ago, and loved it then. Haven't seen it since, so I don't know how I'd see it now, but I know there were some brilliant lines, and I remember the Dallas take-off relatively well. In any case, it was her thoroughly dismissive answer that really got up my nose!


Indeed. But it definitely had it's weird/surreal bits such as:

Vivian somehow getting pregnant Very Happy... And who can forget University Challenge where Vivian gets decapitated? lol

Quote:
Certainly, "IT" has to have happened at some point, yes--Susan has to have come from somewhere, though I suppose she could be adopted! I just haven't ever had the sense that it's something that's all that important to him--he's about saving the world and righting wrongs, and with all the wrongs in the world, who has the time? Wink I've never read Lungbarrow, but the more I hear about it, the more I think it's ridiculous. Of course, I probably shouldn't pass judgment without reading it, but...ehh.


Haha, I wouldn't recommend Lungbarrow to anyone. It's up on the BBC wbsite for free though, if you're interested in taking a peek, but I can tell you now the same guy who wrote Ghost Light wrote Lungbarrow and it's just a really long winded way of saying:

Time Lords are born from looms Laughing

I don't buy the Lungbarrow stuff though, certainly.. It's nice to read (But hard to read and boring), but it isn't worth the crazy amounts people pay for it on ebay in my opinion.

It's just a desperate ploy to:

Prove "IT" has never happened to the Doctor (Although it doesn't state this, I think it probably wants us to somewhat assume that.) when in reality the only reason "IT" never happened on the TV is because the popularity of Who goes way back to the 60s and 70s where it wasn't really kosher to show stuff like that on the television.. No real other reason, I'm assuming.. Though they've tried to make the reasons since.. Which is conveniant, as the Doctor is a mystery and does add to the mystery thing even more so. Very Happy

Quote:
ROFL! Though I gotta admit, I always thought Bill Hartnell was kind of a cute old guy. Not that I'd want to jump him or anything, but he had that little touch of whimsy that I thought made him adorable--when he wasn't being cranky!


lol... I don't think I've seen him when he isn't being cranky. He reminds me and my friend of Yoda for some reason.

Quote:
I have to admit, I can totally see the Doctor, being somewhat emotionally challenged (in that he doesn't often admit he has them, unless the Cyberleader's threatening Tegan's life, or something), having trouble saying something like that. But I wonder if Rose could have felt as insanely strongly about him if they'd gone that far--after all, the pining/UST is generally stronger than the feelings post-resolution. And she just was ridiculous in how attached she was to him. Part of why I damn near hated her by the end of the series.


The emotionally challenged bit did cross my mind too Razz. I had to admire some of the faces David Tennant pulled when he was getting kissed. They were pretty amusing even if I do totally disagree with the route Who is going along! You have a point with Rose..

..And I would actually like a more middle aged woman to travel with the Doctor. Someone like Evelyn in the audios. Someone in their 40s or 50s. That'd be interesting... An older woman would be a different dynamic and I don't think they could get away with writing them as a total lovesick, posessive child Razz.

Martha to me in season 3 just sounds like she's going to be a waste. She's a medical student, and she's presumably in her 20s... Is she going to turn into another Rose? Oh god, please, no!


Quote:
I'm trying to remember...didn't we always have the sense, from the very beginning, that there'd been something between them in the past, and it just took them for-bloody-ever to decide if they were going to give it another try? I think that probably explains the subtlety of it--it'd be easier to write in a subtle way, anyway.


It was definitely SOMETHING like that.. But my point was that we definitely had an idea there was something going on, but it was so damn subtle that it never usually detracted us from what was going on in the storyline.. Which was good. And if they were ever going to do something for the Doctor (And god knows, TV audiences these days need a love story to keep themselves interested), they'd have to write it in a similar way to how Troi and Riker were done.. Subtly and of course, differently... But the way it was with the whole Rose thing was that it was in our faces and often had to be a main part of the story or got in the way of the main story with her jealous faces or whatever haha XD

Quote:
I have to confess that I adore Love Actually in spite of the fact that it's an unbelievably flawed movie. So many of my favorite people are in it, and it's set in London, and I saw it just before I got back there for the first time in almost ten years, so... yeah. Soft spot even though they really needed to cut a storyline or two, among other things. I tend to haul it out when I get really homesick for London.


Homesick for London? You used to live here then? Smile You're not missing much haha Smile.

Quote:
True, but I think my favorite role of his is Colonel Brandon, where he's the total opposite of a villain. I think he could have done it, but like Rowan Atkinson, the time has passed.


I've heard of him in that role, but never seen him in it. I tried to watch Die Hard after seeing Harry Potter (As I'd never seen it before!) but I just couldn't stop giggling... He just sounded too camp and all wrong as a German lol.

Quote:
I know, me either! If the WRITING is strong enough, the set's just not as important! And come on, isn't going to a real forest better than trying to build one on a soundstage? Sheeeeeeeesh.


To expand on the writing point, it's proof that they're probably not confident in their own writing to draw the ratings/audience in Razz. I'd probably tell Rusty Davies that if I ever saw him. But apparently he is of the attitude that if you criticise his writing for Who he wants to see "you do better"... He's just so far up his arse. It's a goddamn joke.

Quote:
True. I'll be curious to see what people think of this series, since it starts on SciFi this coming Friday (they're showing TCI and New Earth back-to-back Friday night).


I'm very interested to see their reactions also. Season 2 has the better Who but the weaker writing... And the fact that Tennant is such a good Who with the weaker writing proves he could be an even better one if they just settled down, let Steven Moffat have the reigns and start writing some good stories.

Quote:
I can't deny, I really don't have much interest in the books for any Doctor other than Eight. I want to read the Eight books because I feel like there's this big gaping hole where the continuity is concerned there. But I don't really have any interest in anyone else's. I do have a few random copies of NAs and PDAs, which I picked up at a used bookstore because they were selling them for $1 each--I have Matrix, Players, and Corpse Marker from the PDA series. I may or may not read them someday--if I do, and I like them, then I might read more. But I don't feel any pressing need.

I'm not too surprised that the new books outsell the PDAs. It's only natural that a lot of new folks, including kids, are interested in them now, and know nothing, or almost nothing, about the classic series. I'd think they'd still be able to sell a respectable number of PDAs, though!


Never read a PDA. Just been reading the EDAs and collecting them, so I definitely know how you feel. I also don't think the 9th Doc/10th Doc are strong enough to warrant me actually buying a book of their adventures.

Quote:
I liked The Bodysnatchers, but you're right, it did have some issues. The article in the Complete Eighth magazine talks about how the first few books are trying to find their feet and therefore mostly deal with old, familiar foes, and also talk about how Sam got such a poor introduction in The Eight Doctors and never quite found her feet, either. I do think that, despite the fact that credit's given to the "Sam Team" of folks who tried to, apparently, characterize her well, each author had a wildly different idea of what she was like. I'm especially intrigued by the information at the end of Alien Bodies, and will be interested to see how it goes--but I'm not expecting great things from her at this point.

I don't know if you've seen the Complete Eighth mag, but it's interesting--you can find scans at the ZagreusWaits comm on LJ. The bit dealing with the books is here


Yeah. The Body Snatchers was half decent. It wasn't bad, but it wasn't the best either. I've not read Alien Bodies yet, and I'm up to War of the Daleks as I managed to finish Genocide in a day (Which, btw, is excellent in my eyes!)...

..Speaking of Genocide, they really like torturing poor old eighth doctor don't they?! Genocide was SLIGHTLY convoluted at points, but it did round things off nicely in the end.. Even if there were some obvious unanswered questions... How did the Doctor know Rowenna's name for instance? Why was it stressed several times that it was quite important?

I didn't find Jacob thoroughly convincing. For a villain I was just waiting for him to die.. In fact, the guy annoyed the hell out of me.. And I love the villainous characters!

Never seen Jo Grant in the classic series, so I can't comment on her, though I did like her character.

I thought the Doctor convincing Kitig was far better done than Tuval's forgiveness in Body Snatchers.

..And I actually felt really sorry for Sam at the end where the Doctor is sleeping.

I rank Genocide higher than Vampire Science.. And the only reason I do that is I have huge problems with Vampires in the Who universe. I'm not so sure I buy it even though Vampire Science is a terrific story.


Quote:
Agreed. I was looking around there this morning and there's a thread in one of the series forums that says "Where did RTD go wrong?" I was astonished by the number of posts that said "He hasn't!" Eeeeeeep.


*Sigh* lol. I sometimes wonder if this has anything to do with the fact that OG has a huge gay community and RTD is also gay. I sincerely hope I'm wrong with that though. And, no, before anyone goes off on a tangent, I have nothing against gay people Smile.

I mean, I just don't simply see any other reason for people to say he's great at Who!!! He's awful!

Quote:
Hee! Can't really take credit for them (absolutbritish on LJ posted them originally) but I thought you guys would appreciate them!


Certainly did! They were fantastic. Thank you.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message AIM Address Yahoo Messenger MSN Messenger
Saphira



Joined: 14 Jul 2006
Posts: 142
Location: New Jersey

PostPosted: Mon Sep 25, 2006 3:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

NimaGraven wrote:
Noo. It's not the first one. The first one is Whispers of Terror with Peri, which I personally thought was awful. The Marian Conspiracy introduces a pure Big Finish creation called Evelyn, and she's an absolutely wonderful character and really suits the sixth Doctor.


Cool! I've heard about Evelyn. She's only on the Six audios, right?

Quote:
If you're going to give seven a go I really recommend The Fearmonger. I enjoyed that one. Though I don't think everyone did? :S


Okay, I'll keep that in mind! I think I heard something good about one called The Wormery? But I can't remember which Doctor that is...

Quote:
A lot of people say Genesis of the Daleks is the best one ever.. Not for me. I've not seen Caves, so I can't say.. So the one at the top for me is still Inferno. I've got Caves though...


I should watch Inferno again. I waited SO long to see it, and now it feels like a distant memory!

Quote:
If you dislike Peri I suppose your favourite Colin Baker who story is The Twin Dilemma? Razz


To be honest, I really don't remember The Twin Dilemma all that well!

Quote:
But the whole bit I didn't understand about the Sarah Jane thing after seeing Hand of Fear was...:

"Whine whine whine I thought you were dead bla bla bla...." Ok, that made no sense... But what she says sort of implies that in Hand of Fear there's a big dangerous thing that causes them to split up (I'm tempted to write depart from each other because split up sounds too shippy lol), when in reality they SORT of split mutually and it wasn't like the Doctor was in any danger of dying when they did split up from each other. BTW, I'm definitely not Sarah Janes biggest fan. I find her a bit of a bitch... I love Liz Shaw though and I think it's a shame we didn't see more of her.. The only good thing about Sarah Jane is the andy pandy stuff in Hand of Fear... I want those stripey dungarees!


Oh, I liked Sarah Jane! And I loved her in SR.

I hear you on how they totally retconned her departure from the show in SR, too--I was reaching for my Target novelisation, trying to remember exactly how they left, because he certainly didn't unceremoniously dump her. And yes, she was whining and packing up all her stuff, but she wasn't serious about it--she was just trying to get his attention, and didn't realize what was going on.

She had a very strong personality, certainly, but she was also the first companion who was supposed to be more than the "damsel in distress," so writing her as a strong character was a fairly new thing. I dunno, I give the guys who were writing/directing the episodes credit for trying even if it occasionally missed the mark. (She's also one of the first companions I ever saw, so that's probably also part of why I like her so much.)

Quote:
Haha, I wouldn't recommend Lungbarrow to anyone. It's up on the BBC wbsite for free though, if you're interested in taking a peek, but I can tell you now the same guy who wrote Ghost Light wrote Lungbarrow and it's just a really long winded way of saying:

Time Lords are born from looms Laughing

I don't buy the Lungbarrow stuff though, certainly.. It's nice to read (But hard to read and boring), but it isn't worth the crazy amounts people pay for it on ebay in my opinion.


Hee! I caught that much from hearing people discuss tidbits--and I have to say that I still think it's a ridiculous idea. But...whatever... I don't really have a burning desire to own it, though if I ever come across a copy cheap in a second-hand bookstore, I'll probably pick it up just for curiosity's sake. I'd love to have a copy of The Dying Days, which I thought was a fabulous read, but I'm not willing to pay the ludicrous prices it goes for on ebay.

Quote:
lol... I don't think I've seen him when he isn't being cranky. He reminds me and my friend of Yoda for some reason.


I made myself a multi-Doctor mood theme for LJ this past spring/summer and I am especially fond of a few of the First Doctor icons:



Quote:
The emotionally challenged bit did cross my mind too Razz. I had to admire some of the faces David Tennant pulled when he was getting kissed. They were pretty amusing even if I do totally disagree with the route Who is going along! You have a point with Rose..


Yes, the look on his face afterwards, especially, was brilliant. Perfect Doctor. Even if, as you say, they're taking things in a dangerous direction, IMO.

Quote:
An older woman would be a different dynamic and I don't think they could get away with writing them as a total lovesick, posessive child Razz.


Agreed.

Quote:
Martha to me in season 3 just sounds like she's going to be a waste. She's a medical student, and she's presumably in her 20s... Is she going to turn into another Rose? Oh god, please, no!


God, I hope not. I've been hoping the fact that a) she's a bit older and b) she has some career aspirations would mean that she's a distinct change from Rose. :: crosses fingers ::

Quote:
It was definitely SOMETHING like that.. But my point was that we definitely had an idea there was something going on, but it was so damn subtle that it never usually detracted us from what was going on in the storyline.. Which was good. And if they were ever going to do something for the Doctor (And god knows, TV audiences these days need a love story to keep themselves interested), they'd have to write it in a similar way to how Troi and Riker were done.. Subtly and of course, differently... But the way it was with the whole Rose thing was that it was in our faces and often had to be a main part of the story or got in the way of the main story with her jealous faces or whatever haha XD


Agreed 100%. You're absolutely right about the subtlety factor, in both cases.

Quote:
Homesick for London? You used to live here then? Smile You're not missing much haha Smile.


No, I've never lived there, but I absolutely adore the place. Been there three times in the last three years and go through withdrawal symptoms when I've been away too long. It's literally my favorite place on earth.

Quote:
I've heard of him in that role, but never seen him in it. I tried to watch Die Hard after seeing Harry Potter (As I'd never seen it before!) but I just couldn't stop giggling... He just sounded too camp and all wrong as a German lol.


Oh, you should. Brandon is such a fabulous character, and he's perfect for it in the most delightfully against-type way. Marianne doesn't deserve him at all, but that's a side issue. And Hugh Laurie plays Gregory House's Austen-era ancestor, I'm quite sure, in a small but brilliant performance.

Quote:
To expand on the writing point, it's proof that they're probably not confident in their own writing to draw the ratings/audience in Razz. I'd probably tell Rusty Davies that if I ever saw him. But apparently he is of the attitude that if you criticise his writing for Who he wants to see "you do better"... He's just so far up his arse. It's a goddamn joke.


Oh god, I hadn't heard his comment, but someone should shove his own words up his arse. Criminy. You're absolutely right about the confidence in the audience, which is, in turn, a sign of lack of confidence in yourself, which is probably why he's so damn defensive. Jaysis.

Quote:
I'm very interested to see their reactions also. Season 2 has the better Who but the weaker writing... And the fact that Tennant is such a good Who with the weaker writing proves he could be an even better one if they just settled down, let Steven Moffat have the reigns and start writing some good stories.


Seriously. I am all for Steven Moffat taking over. That'd be something wild and amazing then.

Though I have to say, I really loved Chris Eccleston's Doctor. More than I like David Tennant's, though again, I chalk that up to the way they're writing Ten. I really hope they fix the Ten issues this year.

Quote:
Never read a PDA. Just been reading the EDAs and collecting them, so I definitely know how you feel. I also don't think the 9th Doc/10th Doc are strong enough to warrant me actually buying a book of their adventures.


They might be, I don't know. I am trying not to judge them now, because I judged the NA/EDA stuff on the basis of the Target novelisations (and the fact that I really grew out of written SF in high school, so it's been a real attitude adjustment for me to want to read any at all), an now I wish I hadn't. Certainly, would have been a lot easier to go buy a new book every month as they were released, if only I'd known! Wink

Quote:
Yeah. The Body Snatchers was half decent. It wasn't bad, but it wasn't the best either. I've not read Alien Bodies yet, and I'm up to War of the Daleks as I managed to finish Genocide in a day (Which, btw, is excellent in my eyes!)...


I liked Genocide, yes. The two Dalek books are widely regarded among the worst of the series, so I'm about to start WoD with a bit of trepidation. I'm hoping perhaps I'll like it more than most. But I did like Alien Bodies quite a lot, so you have that to look forward to Smile

Quote:
[size=7]..Speaking of Genocide, they really like torturing poor old eighth doctor don't they?! Genocide was SLIGHTLY convoluted at points, but it did round things off nicely in the end.. Even if there were some obvious unanswered questions... How did the Doctor know Rowenna's name for instance? Why was it stressed several times that it was quite important?


They really do like to torture Eight. Poor guy. He seems to handle it well, though! I wished I had a better mental picture of the Tractites--every time I thought I had it, more or less, some other facet of their appearance would be mentioned. I especially liked the question of choice that it raised, though. If you could destroy another race completely so you could save your own...would you?

I don't remember the details with Rowenna's name at this point.


Quote:
I didn't find Jacob thoroughly convincing. For a villain I was just waiting for him to die.. In fact, the guy annoyed the hell out of me.. And I love the villainous characters!

Never seen Jo Grant in the classic series, so I can't comment on her, though I did like her character.

I thought the Doctor convincing Kitig was far better done than Tuval's forgiveness in Body Snatchers.

..And I actually felt really sorry for Sam at the end where the Doctor is sleeping.


Jacob was a bit much--you knew he was psycho from the beginning, but yeah...he drank a little too much Kool-Aid. Jo was a bit of a challenge for me just because she was older than she was on the show, and therefore necessarily not quite the same character. I didn't have big issues with her, though, aside from her decision to kill the Tractites at the end--this is a former companion of the Doctor?!? I liked Kitig a lot--great character, and I like how much debate and dilemma he had to go through before he finally made his decision.

Quote:
I rank Genocide higher than Vampire Science.. And the only reason I do that is I have huge problems with Vampires in the Who universe. I'm not so sure I buy it even though Vampire Science is a terrific story.


Have you seen State of Decay? That's the only reason I don't question the vampire thing--I don't think they were so much in vogue back then, like they are now. I liked VS and thought it was very well-written, though some of the vampire stuff struck me as being a bit too Buffy.

Quote:
*Sigh* lol. I sometimes wonder if this has anything to do with the fact that OG has a huge gay community and RTD is also gay. I sincerely hope I'm wrong with that though. And, no, before anyone goes off on a tangent, I have nothing against gay people Smile.


Ahh, I wasn't aware of the gay population over there, but that is one theory. I hope you're wrong, too, but I'd be lying if I said it would surprise me if you weren't, just based on my own experience. :-\

Quote:
I mean, I just don't simply see any other reason for people to say he's great at Who!!! He's awful!


He gets some of it right, but...then there's the rest. I just don't think he knows what to do with the Doctor, which is a rather significant problem if you're going to be writing Doctor Who!

Sigh.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
NimaGraven



Joined: 21 Aug 2006
Posts: 69
Location: Liverpool, UK

PostPosted: Sun Oct 01, 2006 4:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Saphira wrote:

Cool! I've heard about Evelyn. She's only on the Six audios, right?


Yep Smile.

Quote:
Okay, I'll keep that in mind! I think I heard something good about one called The Wormery? But I can't remember which Doctor that is...


Not heard that one! But the big finish website has a list of which Doctor stars in what, so that might help.

Quote:
I should watch Inferno again. I waited SO long to see it, and now it feels like a distant memory!


You should, I love it Razz.

Quote:
To be honest, I really don't remember The Twin Dilemma all that well!


Ah, well, let me refresh your memory.

At the beginning of The Twin Dilemma, the Doctor:

Has "one of his fits" as Peri puts it and runs to strangle her believing she's evil. Yay!

lol Twisted Evil

Quote:
I hear you on how they totally retconned her departure from the show in SR, too--I was reaching for my Target novelisation, trying to remember exactly how they left, because he certainly didn't unceremoniously dump her. And yes, she was whining and packing up all her stuff, but she wasn't serious about it--she was just trying to get his attention, and didn't realize what was going on.


It was definitely really daft for anyone who follows Who.

Quote:
She had a very strong personality, certainly, but she was also the first companion who was supposed to be more than the "damsel in distress," so writing her as a strong character was a fairly new thing. I dunno, I give the guys who were writing/directing the episodes credit for trying even if it occasionally missed the mark. (She's also one of the first companions I ever saw, so that's probably also part of why I like her so much.)


Yeah, indeed, I dig that, I just think sometimes she came off more of a bitch rather than a strong personality... To me there's a big difference in that.

Quote:
Hee! I caught that much from hearing people discuss tidbits--and I have to say that I still think it's a ridiculous idea. But...whatever... I don't really have a burning desire to own it, though if I ever come across a copy cheap in a second-hand bookstore, I'll probably pick it up just for curiosity's sake. I'd love to have a copy of The Dying Days, which I thought was a fabulous read, but I'm not willing to pay the ludicrous prices it goes for on ebay.


Hehe, indeed, I do think it's a load of crap too Wink.

Quote:
I made myself a multi-Doctor mood theme for LJ this past spring/summer and I am especially fond of a few of the First Doctor icons:




Ah, those are fantastic, lol.

Quote:
Yes, the look on his face afterwards, especially, was brilliant. Perfect Doctor. Even if, as you say, they're taking things in a dangerous direction, IMO.


Yeah, that's exactly how I thought.

Quote:
God, I hope not. I've been hoping the fact that a) she's a bit older and b) she has some career aspirations would mean that she's a distinct change from Rose. :: crosses fingers ::


It's a bit of a spoiler, but the rumour I heard for season 3 was that:

Martha isn't a willing companion at first.

But we all know that it doesn't mean that eventually we won't have Rose situation.... I mean...:

If they can pretty much have Sarah Jane admitting that she somewhat loved the Doctor in the episode last season then I think it's a shame that maybe all characters might be written this way.... I don't like the Doctor being too much of a Mary Sue. lol.

Bring back an older incarnation is what I say Smile.

Quote:
No, I've never lived there, but I absolutely adore the place. Been there three times in the last three years and go through withdrawal symptoms when I've been away too long. It's literally my favorite place on earth.


I went there once way back when I was 18. It was with my college because I was studying Politics back then. I probably shouldn't admit to this because I'm the world's biggest campaigner against it but I ended up buying the booze as I was a year older than everyone (I took a year out due to depression, which I go up and down with all the time anyway.)

We had fun though. We took an hours trip on the Thames, visited the Palace of Westminster and saw the House of Commons. Went to Whitechapel and the War Museum... Also got a chance to see Leicester Square, Picadilly (Which is where I was staying), Harrods and Buckingham Palace.. And that was in 24 hours, so I think I did well lol.

Getting home the next day was a nightmare though, as Formula 1 was at Regent Street so a lot of the tubes got closed down and we had to walk from Picadilly to Park Lane with our luggage to get a coach back to Southport (Which was where I went to college.. I in fact live in a suburb of Liverpool called Crosby.). We didn't get home till about 2am in the morning lol.

Quote:
Oh, you should. Brandon is such a fabulous character, and he's perfect for it in the most delightfully against-type way. Marianne doesn't deserve him at all, but that's a side issue. And Hugh Laurie plays Gregory House's Austen-era ancestor, I'm quite sure, in a small but brilliant performance.


I have no idea what you're talking about! Heck, I've never read Jane Eyre before, but I've only started watching it on TV and the second part is on tonight on bbc1.

Mmm. Toby Stephens as Rochester!

Quote:
Oh god, I hadn't heard his comment, but someone should shove his own words up his arse. Criminy. You're absolutely right about the confidence in the audience, which is, in turn, a sign of lack of confidence in yourself, which is probably why he's so damn defensive. Jaysis.


Gr. I know. I just ended up commenting on a friend's journal about how awful season 2 is and the writing in journal. I can see it turning into a whole "You're bashing my idol" thing or something.. lol. But I couldn't resist. I just had to point out he's an asswipe Very Happy.

Quote:
Seriously. I am all for Steven Moffat taking over. That'd be something wild and amazing then.


Steven Moffat be the bomb. It's no coincidence that most the episodes he writes are coincidentially the best ones lol.

Quote:
Though I have to say, I really loved Chris Eccleston's Doctor. More than I like David Tennant's, though again, I chalk that up to the way they're writing Ten. I really hope they fix the Ten issues this year.


Yeah, I think in some ways a lot of Ten's problems have just been really awful writing issues. I hope they fix them too.

Quote:
I liked Genocide, yes. The two Dalek books are widely regarded among the worst of the series, so I'm about to start WoD with a bit of trepidation. I'm hoping perhaps I'll like it more than most. But I did like Alien Bodies quite a lot, so you have that to look forward to Smile


I read War of the Daleks and it wasn't bad, but it was definitely one of the weaker books I've read so far, along with the Eight Doctors. I've started on Alien Bodies, but I found the first couple of chapters really difficult to settle into (Slow/Poor start maybe?).. Now that Faction Paradox amongst others have turned up on this mystery "Guest list" I'm starting to get into. BTW, Faction Paradox are fantastic. I'd never heard of them before, but I like them already lol.

Quote:
They really do like to torture Eight. Poor guy. He seems to handle it well, though! I wished I had a better mental picture of the Tractites--every time I thought I had it, more or less, some other facet of their appearance would be mentioned. I especially liked the question of choice that it raised, though. If you could destroy another race completely so you could save your own...would you?

I don't remember the details with Rowenna's name at this point.


I can't wait to read more of the stuff to do with Eight in the books. And YES you are right with the Tractites, I had the same problem! And the moral aspect of the book was brilliant. I'm waiting for a couple of people on ebay to get their finger out and send some stuff I've won (Some dating back to 12/13th september!)... One of them I know is a slow sender from reading the comments, and I've already received one of the books I bought off him... The other one sent me a despatch message last monday and I still haven't received it. I'm going to give it 7 working days before I start enquiring though.

Quote:
Jacob was a bit much--you knew he was psycho from the beginning, but yeah...he drank a little too much Kool-Aid. Jo was a bit of a challenge for me just because she was older than she was on the show, and therefore necessarily not quite the same character. I didn't have big issues with her, though, aside from her decision to kill the Tractites at the end--this is a former companion of the Doctor?!? I liked Kitig a lot--great character, and I like how much debate and dilemma he had to go through before he finally made his decision.


Most definitely.

I don't know who Jo Grant is so I can't really comment hehe Very Happy.

Kitig really was fantastic though. I loved him.


Quote:
Have you seen State of Decay? That's the only reason I don't question the vampire thing--I don't think they were so much in vogue back then, like they are now. I liked VS and thought it was very well-written, though some of the vampire stuff struck me as being a bit too Buffy.


I've heard of State of Decay, but I still don't like the idea of these mythical characters from a completely different "series" of books being in Who. It just doesn't settle well with me... Don't get me wrong. VS is an incredibly well written book.. And it's also a lot of fun and I really enjoyed it.. I just don't like the topic of Vamps very much Smile.

Quote:
Ahh, I wasn't aware of the gay population over there, but that is one theory. I hope you're wrong, too, but I'd be lying if I said it would surprise me if you weren't, just based on my own experience. :-\


Really? That's unfortunate. And yes OG has a huge gay community. The over 18s part of the forum has men judging other men's hairy chests and stuff like that lol. Either that, or the men there are just incredibly open about their sexuality.

Quote:
He gets some of it right, but...then there's the rest. I just don't think he knows what to do with the Doctor, which is a rather significant problem if you're going to be writing Doctor Who!

Sigh.


Yup indeed Very Happy.

And sorry for the delay in writing back. I've been doing other things in between applying for jobs and I've not felt like replying, which is really bad of me.. And I've been going out and drinking and generally spending money I don't really have lol.

Oh, and playing video games.

I hope I get a job soon, I'm getting so bored lol.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message AIM Address Yahoo Messenger MSN Messenger
Rollyb



Joined: 09 Feb 2006
Posts: 302
Location: Ontario Canada

PostPosted: Sun Oct 01, 2006 5:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The new series will be airing in Canada starting on Oct 9....I found this link for more info.
Rollande Cool
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    The McGann Library Forum Index -> Water Cooler All times are GMT - 6 Hours
Goto page 1, 2  Next
Page 1 of 2

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group